A Team Lucas Perspective on Nathan Grant
Hello everyone! It's another Wednesday and time for another blog post!
So last week I mentioned something about doing a blog post just for Nathan. I mean, if you've been reading my blog for very long now you'll know I'm kinda...biased. Yes, I'm a self proclaimed Team Lucas fan, and so my opinions may not be taken in the best light by the other team.
However I do a lot of Team Lucas themed posts and so it's about time Nathan got one. Plus I'm not 100% against Nathan. (Gasp!) There are things that I actually enjoy about his character. And then there are things that I don't.... (After all, I'm Team Lucas.😉)
But I think the fact that I am "Team Lucas" could provide some interesting views for you guys. (Or infuriate the guts out of Team Nathan.) So on that thought....shall we? (Gagh! There's that Team Lucas in me! ;)
Team Nathan be warned. You will probably leave this post ranting to anyone in sight about my "views." (Just as I would if someone did this to Lucas.... :)
Disclaimer: I've had a Team Lucas friend, and a Team Nathan friend read this post before posting it. :)
Things I Like About Nathan
His smile.
I'm totally not above saying that the man is good looking. Cause he is. And he has this sort of lop-sided smile he gets which is pretty darn cute. (Did that just come out of my mouth...err...fingers?) Now looks are not everything in a character but they certainly aren't nothing. So when it comes to the "appearance" department, Nathan checks that box for me.
He's raising his niece
The idea of a Mountie raising his deceased sister's niece is truly a great storyline that I really like. And the fact that we have this tall, strong, man of the law raising a girl is even better! It adds this brand new twist to the Mountie character and made him different from Jack. It also opens the door for so many different story possibilities. And the fact that Allie is such a strong willed young lady makes for some fun dynamics.
I really, really would love to explore the story of Allie's mother's death, and her father abandoning her. There are so many emotions and aspects to be explored here. How close were Nathan and his sister? How well did he know her husband? How did she die? How did Allie's father act before and after his wife's death? Exactly how did he abandon Allie? How did Nathan react to his sister's death? Does he blame himself? How did Allie react?
So, as you can see, I have a LOT of questions! Lol! But I really believe that this is such a powerful, and poignant storyline just begging to be explored. It also may help bring healing to both Nathan and Allie's lives, and help us get to know them even more.
His witty side
I really enjoyed Nathan's cocky/witty side in When Hope Calls. He just had this confidence, and swag that didn't seem to be there in WCTH Season 6. He made me laugh with his "sitting ducks" line, and he showed us the confident and brave Mountie that he is. Sadly however this confidence seems to leave whenever he's in Hope Valley. Mainly when he's around Elizabeth, and for good reason. Which brings me to my next topic.
His sweet/shy side
Nathan truly is a sweet guy, and his shyness and cat-got-your-tongue ways make him more endearing. He doesn't always have the perfect words to say which can result in some "interesting" comments on his part. But that's just another thing I like about him. I never know what is going to come out of his mouth next, and I find it fun!
Nathan has a kind and giving heart, which is obvious from him volunteering to raise his niece, and his line of work. He wants to protect people, because he's experienced hurt in his own life. He also wants to bring about justice, and make sure the bad guys don't prevail. All in all he's a brave and courageous, yet sweet and shy guy. (A very cute combination!)
His backstory
Nathan has such a great dramatic backstory, and if you know me then you know I love drama. :) The whole plot with Nathan and his father, and the glimpse we got into his childhood adds such a complex and deep component to Nathan's character. Just that one story he told about listening to his mother crying because his father had sold a piece of jewelry he'd given her gave me this whole picture of what his childhood was like.
Add the plot line about Nathan's sister dying and the writers have SO MANY stories and emotions to explore! It all just makes Nathan a deeper character which is wonderful!
Things I Dislike About Nathan....
Oh, boy. Here we go. (Team Nathan, you may want to duck out now...)
His Attitude
This is the main thing I dislike about Nathan. I'm sure a LOT of people have a LOT of different feelings on this topic, and everyone is totally free to their own opinions. That's what makes us all special and unique. :)
Now don't take this to mean I dislike his entire character, as my previous comments prove that isn't the case. I do like Nathan. However I have to be honest that I don't agree with some of the ways he has handled himself, mainly toward Elizabeth and Lucas.
Lucas
Now I can give Nathan a teeny, tiny slide here as I totally don't blame him for having somewhat of a grudge against Lucas. After all he's been through so much in his past with his gambling father, and....let's face it. Who would be fond of their rival when it comes to matters of the heart?
Yet, at the same time I can't over-look the way he's acted toward Lucas. He's treated Lucas, a complete stranger, with a lot of disrespect, and honestly has been down right rude at times. He told Lucas after barely knowing anything about him that "He doesn't seem like a good fit for Hope Valley" because HV is full of good people. Clearly insinuating that Lucas isn't a "good person." (Ouch!)
Yet despite this Lucas has continued to treat Nathan with a level of respect and kindness. Granted Lucas has pulled a few well aimed punches at the Mountie, to which he is not excused from. (Maybe I should do a post listing things I like and dislike about Lucas. Wouldn't that be something?)
Nathan also called Lucas a thief, jailbird, and a compulsive gambler as he lumped him together with his father. And the thing that makes this worse is the fact that Lucas didn't do anything to deserve that comment. He hadn't done anything wrong during Season 7, nor was he even gambling in that episode. (That risk taking, gambler side in him seemed to die down in S7, which I'm grateful for.) But he was walking kindly with Nathan's dad, Archie, and so he's now a crook.
Nathan clearly holds Lucas in a very low regard, even offering Lucas the chance to back out of helping him warn the town about the outbreak of chicken pox since "the town" wasn't there watching. A lot of times Nathan's comments toward Lucas are just simply uncalled for, and don't really help do Nathan's character a lot of favors.
Now does this make Nathan a monster? No. I can see that he is a kind, shy, and sweet man with a good heart, who cares about others. I think a big reason that he has a problem with Lucas is that he has called himself a gambler, and Nathan maybe wants to spare Elizabeth from the pain he experienced as a child. But he does have his flaws, just as Lucas does, and could use a bit of work.
Elizabeth
The other thing I have to mention is the way he's acted toward Elizabeth. Once again, the man is allowed his flaws, but I'd say his communication skills really need some work. I actually think that this is one of, if not the biggest problem Nathan has. He just doesn't always know how to communicate his feelings, or he chooses to keep them locked inside. (Possibly a side-effect from his childhood.)
Nathan clearly has feelings for Elizabeth, but there have been a lot of times where he has just not done the best job (For me personally) in the way he's handled himself. So many times we've gotten the glare and walk away moment. And for a guy who claims he's not afraid of competition, this seems to be showing the exact opposite. He gives up very easily, and then becomes very moody.
I've seen a happy, and confident Nathan and he had so much more charisma. I really would love to see him have more of that spunk he had in WHC.
His Relationship With Elizabeth
Now hold up! Don't click away, or throw your phones down so you can go and rant about me to your mother or friends. Remember this is just my opinion, and your totally free to disagree with me. (Or rant to your mother about me....)
So, what I am referring to in this topic, is how Nathan has treated Elizabeth. Now don't get me wrong, Nathan has done some sweet things, and clearly really admires her. My problem is that sometimes Nathan seems to act like she's betrayed him when they're not a couple, and have never even been on a date. Let me explain.
A prime example is the Union City trip. At this point Nathan hadn't told Elizabeth anything about his feelings. He'd shown her by giving her that plaque, and the apple, but he'd never openly told her that he has feelings for her, or asked her out. Then he learns that she went out of town with Lucas and out comes the axe. He's clearly upset, and maybe feels betrayed. Then Elizabeth comes back and he gives her that icy shoulder of his, and she automatically feels bad. Maybe even guilty for that fun trip she took with Lucas.
Now he absolutely had a reason to be upset. I would be too if I was in his shoes. My problem is that he had no right to treat her the way he did. She had never told him that she "like-liked" him, nor had they gone out prior to this. And yet Nathan felt he had the right not only to shun her, but also to make her feel guilty about what she had done, as if she'd betrayed him in some way. When in fact she was totally free to go out with Lucas if she pleased. To me Nathan's actions would have been more warranted if he and Elizabeth had gone out together first. Then this really would have been Elizabeth's fault. (Although some communication on her part may have helped.)
Either way, once again, I'm not saying Nathan isn't a good man. I just think he needs to change how he handles his emotions.
He Makes Elizabeth Do the Work
The problem here is that Nathan was wrong on both accounts. He shut Elizabeth out after the UC trip, and he was the one who exploded during the cabin fight. (Not that Elizabeth didn't raise her voice too, but he started the conversation off with a lot of attitude.) And then it was Elizabeth who had to fix both the issues, when Nathan was the one who had the problem to start.
Of course I can't over look the fact that he did try to say something to Elizabeth after their fight, but got interrupted. What was he going to say? I don't know. If it was an apology I would be saying something different right now. However things still ended where Elizabeth had to go to him, and try and get to the bottom of things. If she hadn't talked to him both times, the situation could have dragged on even longer.
Now, again I think his actions could stem from his traumatic childhood, which helps me understand things better. Also I totally understand that the thing Nathan was upset about (Elizabeth going on the trip with Lucas) isn't exactly something he would want to talk about. It's a sensitive and embarrassing thing to say, "I'm upset because I like you and was jealous you spent time with another man." But all in all Nathan was pretty stubborn, and I think didn't handle the situation the best way he could have.
However I am glad he made things right in the end, and his statement to Elizabeth that, "She matters to him," was very sweet.
His Jealousy
So....about Nathan's jealousy....Chances are if you're "Team Nathan" and you know a "Team Lucas" fan you've heard all of this before. It's not that jealousy isn't natural or even fun to watch in a character. Jack was jealous of Billy Hamilton in Season 1 and it was more of a cute and silly thing. (Although it did end quite badly for him.)
The thing is just that Nathan's jealousy goes a bit father than Jack's did, and produces some of the things I just mentioned I don't like. He tends to get mopey and angry when things don't go his way, resulting in that cold shoulder and non-communicative ways I mentioned above.
I'm not saying he isn't allowed to be jealous because, lets face it, everyone gets jealous at least once in their lives. I just think that he needs to find a better way to handle it is all.
Well, there you have it. A Team Lucas perspective (Good and bad) on Nathan Grant. I admit it was a "riskier" post to write, (And hopefully I haven't lost readers in the process.) but And for any Team Nathan fans reading (Kudos to you if you've read this far!) please know that I do not hate Nathan. I'll be the first to admit that I'm biased, and naturally can find things to point out about him since I want Lucas to win. But I know that he really is a sweet and caring man, with a good heart. I have some things that I don't agree with that he's done, but still can see that he is a kind man who cares about the town of Hope Valley. (The town and "the town." Lol!)
Thank you so much for reading! Feel free to comment your thoughts on Nathan below or on my Twitter page. (But please be polite whether your listing your dislikes, or why you think I'm wrong.😁) Have a wonderful day! God Bless!
P.S. Have you seen the new limited edition design of the month? Feel free to stop by my shop and check it out! https://shop.spreadshirt.com/heart-and-family-mercantile
Great minds think alike!
ReplyDeleteSo, I am much like you- I don't hate Nathan. Many of TL do, and that's fine, but I find some of his qualities endearing. I see him just about the same as you. I like him quite well away from Elizabeth. But with her, he is painful to watch much of the time.
I think that Nathan feels he has to rescue Elizabeth from Lucas, who he believes is much like his father. I believe it is also a competition to him- his words- with Elizabeth, whereas Lucas has deep feelings for her. None of us know who is endgame, but I'm fairly certain it will be Lucas. Fingers crossed.
Great post, as always. I've missed commenting on the last few and need to get caught up.
Thank you so much! Blessings, SK
Yes, I think one of the big problems Nathan has with Lucas is the fact that he's a gambler. Add in the fact that he's also pursuing Elizabeth, the widow of another Mountie and someone who Nathan really cares about/wants to court that maybe just brings out the protector instincts in him, henceforth maybe why he's so down on Lucas.
DeleteI sure hope Lucas is the endgame! Can you believe we've been waiting to find this out for almost two years? It's kind of crazy when you think about it. Lol!
Thank you for the comment! God Bless!
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ReplyDeleteVocê é sempre muito cuidadosa com as palavras, em minha opinião pegou leve com Nathan ... rsrs ... Já li cada texto sobre o Lucas ... Bem pesados.
ReplyDeleteMas, enfim ... Concordo com vários aspectos de tudo que você escreveu, porém, não vejo todas essas qualidades no Nathan.
Acredito que nenhuma mulher precisa de um homem do qual ela tenha de sempre fazer o trabalho por ele. No caso da Elizabeth, ela tem um filho, é viúva, tem seus alunos e ainda pode se relacionar com um homem que apesar da profissão ser pró ativa, não consegue dar o primeiro passo e trata a Elizabeth como prêmio ?(ele disse, que não foge de competições) O amor não é corrida, demonstrar sentimentos por alguém não deve ser por vontade de " não posso ficar para trás". Eu estava conversando com umas amigas e disse pra elas, as flores que Lucas levou possuiam a seguinte motivação: "Ela provavelmente recebeu flores de outro pretendente, ok. Mas não vou desistir, vou demonstrar meus sentimentos e dizer a ela que merece isso e muito mais".
Então, Nathan precisa amadurecer consigo mesmo e em seus sentimentos. A motivação dele deve ser sua amada (se ele realmente estiver amando, pois, ele pode simplesmente estar apenas querendo "ganhar" do Bouchard - Quando teve a oportunidade de ir para outra cidade, se a Allie não chorasse pedindo muito com a ajuda da professora ele teria ido embora. Ele disse: não tem nada aqui que me prende).
Bom, já deu para perceber que sou teamLucas né?! Kkkkkkkkk
Amo seu blog ♥ ️
I'm more a fan of Nathan with Elizabeth and I like Nathan a bit more as a character as well, but I enjoy Lucas too. I need more backstory on Lucas, however. (More on that later.)
ReplyDeleteI agree Nathan was tough on Lucas at the very beginning. I think it's important to remember that Lucas was very secretive at that point and Bill was very suspicious of him. In a way, Nathan wouldn't be doing his job if he didn't say something. What he said may have crossed a line, but then I don't think a line with Lucas could really be established yet based upon what he was willing (or unwilling to share). Nathan's actions were also influenced by the card tricks Lucas taught Allie and the fact that he loves to gamble, which Nathan abhors (though nobody knows why yet). In looking at these interactions, it's also important to look at subsequent happenings. When Lucas was in trouble later on, Nathan did not hesitate to help him and they shook hands at the end, acknowledging that they were okay with each other.
Now, I agree that Nathan treated Lucas poorly when his father came to town. He struggled mightily to disconnect Lucas from his father and all the hurt he caused. Lucas received Nathan's wrath simply because he associated with his father. Not right, but something that I can relate to. And kudos to Lucas because he definitely understood that and did not hold it against Nathan. In fact, he kept trying to support Nathan and his father. There is a line that he shares (and the manner in how he shares it), that makes me wonder just a little bit whether Lucas has had struggles with his own father (aha, maybe some backstory). It's the line where he says that it can't be easy having his father in trouble. It may just be a show of empathy, but I have wondered if there is more to it. It just feels like there is something about this relationship with Nathan and his father that really resonates with Lucas. Also, he mentions that in his line of work, he sees people struggling. So, has that line of work always been gambling and saloons?
My comments continued . . .
ReplyDeleteIn regards to telling Lucas he could back out because "the town" wasn't there, I actually thought Nathan handled himself pretty well considering it was obvious to everybody (except Elizabeth) that Lucas volunteered because of Elizabeth. At the end of that exchange if you'll recall, Nathan stops and tells Lucas that while he isn't a fan of why Lucas has volunteered, he does appreciate the help. Again, it's important to look at everything connected.
I agree Nathan has been jealous and hasn't always acted well. He is a work in progress and I like seeing him trying to do better (and I do believe he is improving). There are two specific actions of his that I thought were poor writing and did not fit his character even if jealousy comes in to play. Deceiving Lucas so that Elizabeth will show him how to play darts and telling Elizabeth he is not afraid of competition. Jealousy might cause him to shut Elizabeth out, be somewhat grumpy and overreact, but lying and saying he won't back down from competition do not. I was disappointed with both of those scenes.
Although I dislike how Lucas treats the non-dates as actual dates, I am not one of those who thinks he is horrible and does not respect Elizabeth's boundaries. I think he genuinely cares and I think it's obvious that he has decided she's the one for him. While I may say he has crossed a line and would point it out to him, Elizabeth never has. So, while she has not verbally agreed to dates with him, her actions say otherwise, so I have to go with that. (Of course, I am going to insert my thought here that Elizabeth can be pretty bad at setting boundaries with men as shown by how poorly she did it with Charles). I'm actually more uncomfortable with things that Lucas has said to Elizabeth, not what he has done for her. Though I am going to say that I think it would have been much more romantic for Lucas to have actually read the Virginia Woolf book than to just make it clear that he did everything for her when he wasn't a fan. (He had connections for the tickets, car, and food, but actually reading the book would have required a lot more effort from him.)
As far as communication goes, I think that while Nathan clearly struggles in talking with Elizabeth, I would actually say that by the end of Season 7 Nathan is ahead of Lucas. This goes back to my comment from above about what Lucas says to Elizabeth. He has done many things for Elizabeth, has treated her kindly and generously, has smiled and supported her in her writing. However, when it comes to saying how he feels, he has only done so covertly. Now, you may say that he has pretty much shown her and I would say that is true. But, if you are going to make a case for the person who has actually told Elizabeth how he feels, as of right now, it's Nathan. "I just want you to be safe. Because you matter to me."
As I said, I'm a bit more in Nathan's corner, so I know that colors my perspective. I definitely relate more to him, so that makes a difference as well. I have tried, however, to not look at it as Nathan versus Lucas when it comes to the relationship with Elizabeth. Truthfully, either would be a good match for her. I just like her more with Nathan. It's so funny because I see little sparks of chemistry with Nathan and Elizabeth that others don't and when they point out the sparks between Lucas and Elizabeth, I see planned, programmed romance. But, I keep coming back to the fact that Elizabeth seeks Nathan out and she does so not only regularly, but even after a surprise or unexpected romantic evening with Lucas which she clearly enjoys. That says a lot for me when it comes to where her heart is.
As a Team Nathan fan I have to say that I do agree with you that Nathan could have been nicer to Lucas. I think his jealousy of him played a role in that as well as the hurt from his father's gambling addiction, but I do understand your point with that and somewhat agree with it. I also very well appreciate that you pointed out the good things about Nathan. You usually don't hear that from a TL person.
ReplyDeleteMy problem with TL, and this is not everyone, is that I have seen some nasty comments claiming that Nathan is mentally and emotionally abusive to Elizabeth and I find that completely absurd and unfounded. In all due respect to your opinions about that cabin argument, yes he raised his voice, but Elizabeth also pushed him and raised hers, but I would not even begin to call that yelling and most definitely not abusive and I know that you weren't calling it that all, but I have seen others do it. My husband and I raise our voices to each other occasionally and we have arguments like all couples do, it's normal and he did eventually apologize.
As far as Union City goes, Elizabeth knew that Nathan was interested in her and at that point Nathan thought she had made her choice so he does what most people would do, he distanced himself from her to protect his heart. I know TL doesn't want to hear this, but if Elizabeth didn't have feelings for Nathan she wouldn't be chasing him down and telling him to stop shutting her out and she wouldn't be struggling to say yes to Lucas after all the nice things he has done for her, but the fact that she still can't make a decision even after everything Lucas has done for her tells me that her feelings for Nathan are what are keeping her from committing to Lucas.
I so agree with you about the fight in the cabin. I know that people's experiences make a difference as far as what is perceived as yelling, so I can understand somebody describing it that way. But, I'm with you. Based upon my experience of yelling, they weren't even close. Yes, their voices were louder and agitated, but it was a far cry from yelling. It always makes me wonder what somebody would think of what I describe as yelling. As far as Nathan being described as abusive, I find it bewildering as well. Again, people's experiences color how they view this, but I agree with a mentor of mine who taught that we all experience some emotional abuse as part of relationships. It's part of what happens when you are forming relationships, with the give and take, and back and forth of learning how to get along the best you can and learning about each other. It takes effort and work and mistakes and forgiveness. That's what you see here. This is not two people intentionally trying to hurt each other because of a negative connection which is what most people mean when talking about mental or emotional abuse. This is two people trying to get to the bottom of what's wrong because they care about each other. Maybe Nathan doesn't do a great job of it because he's truly scared about what could have happened and also frustrated (and yes jealous, you bet) that Elizabeth seems to have made some kind of decision by going with Lucas to the reading. While it's true that she told Lucas, Rosemary, and Bill that she was going as friends, she never makes this clear to Nathan until the talk in the Mountie office when she says she went because he asked, not because she had picked Lucas. Until that moment, Nathan probably had no idea he still had a shot. So, I think that Elizabeth had as much of a responsibility to talk to Nathan as he did to her if she was trying to be honest with both of them.
DeleteI think the problem TL had with the cabin scene is that Elizabeth and Nathan are not a couple. For sure, my hubby and I have had heated words that were much louder than what happened there, but we are married and have been for a long time. Nathan had never really made a move at all towards courting Elizabeth when that occurred. I think he cares about Elizabeth, but I don't believe it's love, more concern for her safety as he doesn't like or trust Lucas. And possibly thinks Lucas is like his own father. Speculation on my part of course, since none of us really knows where the writers will take us in season 8. I guess we will all have to wait patiently and see where it goes. :)
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DeleteKelley's girl: It's good to get some background/understanding/perspective on why TL might feel as they do. I was wondering if what you shared was your opinion (or TL's) based upon the current time or based upon the time period of WCTH. Since WCTH doesn't bother sticking to social norms, I view this scene from a modern perspective. Maybe back then that kind of argument wouldn't be acceptable unless they were married or courting (I'm not educated enough about this era to know for sure), but today that kind of an argument is pretty common among couples, friends, family, coworkers (don't I know it), and even acquaintances. Today, I feel that more than ever people set their own standards for how they argue/fight based upon their experiences and interactions rather than adhering to social norms or standards. So, I view the exchange in the cabin as completely acceptable. In fact, I believe the argument was good in that it led to further pushing/progression/improvement. It may have been uncomfortable at the moment, but that lack of comfort pushed Elizabeth forward, which then pushed Nathan forward and there was a healthy reconciliation at the end. Having thought about this, I also wondered if you then viewed Lucas as officially courting Elizabeth. Is so, I'd love to know at when you feel this starts and then also do you believe that this same type of argument would have been acceptable between Elizabeth and Lucas.
DeleteAnd now I have spent way too much time on this. Writing and reading others' thoughts has been interesting, but I think I need to go live in my real world now.
P.S. I actually think Nathan does like Lucas. I think it might be begrudgingly, but I think he does. As far as trust, I think it's more that Nathan has seen Lucas as suave, flirty, and a charmer and questions how sincere he is with Elizabeth. Nathan is simultaneously dealing with coming to terms with really liking Elizabeth (and yes, I do believe he does and I do believe there is plenty of interactions to show that) and also to terms with the fact that Lucas may be suave and charming, but he is also a good guy and genuine in his regard for Elizabeth. (Okay, now I'm really done.)
I try to view things that happen from that period's viewpoint as much as possible. Not always possible of course.
DeleteNo, I do not believe Lucas and Elizabeth are courting. But I do believe she decided that library dinner was a date when she removed her jacket. I actually would be surprised to see this type of argument coming from Lucas, it would be out of character for him. Of course, as I said, none of us knows where the writers are going in season 8, so we will have to wait and see.
I'm in agreement, I try to only devote a certain amount of time to fantasy. Real life has to take precedence.
:)
First off, maybe you have not said it, but I have seen multiple people say rude comments about that library scene and how they think Nathan is abusive on Twitter. This is Hallmark, there is no way they would show something like that if they thought it displayed any kind of abuse so the insinuation of that is absurd and Nathan wouldn't have said anything if she hadn't pushed him. He thinks she has made her choice. She can't have her cake and eat it to. He is trying to distance himself from her to protect his heart and she is clearly not allowing him to. Gee I wonder why? Could it be because she also has feeling for him and doesn't want him to back away from her? Yep, I think so.
DeleteThe problem with the library is that he presented it to her in a way where they were playing pretend. Sorry, but if she had no feelings for Nathan, after everything Lucas has done for her, she would have chosen him already. Instead she goes and flirts with Nathan the next day and seeks him out. She had previously gone to him and begged him to stop shutting her out. She wouldn't do that if she didn't want his attention. She hesitated in responding to his dinner invitation because she knew she wouldn't be playing pretend. Even Erin in a post show interview said it was nice to play pretend, but she still couldn't call it a date. She didn't choose anyone by removing that jacket. It was safe because he was pretending.
As far as Nathan goes, he is in love with Elizabeth. You can try to convince yourself otherwise as much as you want to, but he definitely loves her and the whole town knows he does, another reason why the embrace in the middle of the town is so significant. I think Lucas in the begining saw her as a challenge, but grew to have feelings for her as he got to know her better, but he will not end up with her. It will be Nathan and, no, the writers have not flipped the script. I believe it has been BB's intention from the begining that she would wind up with Nathan and he is the one who decides who she ends up with, not the writers. He tells them and they write the story to get us there. Anyone who has been watching Hallmark for any amount of time should be able to tell that this will end with Nathan. If you aren't preparing yourself for that, as a Lucas fan, you will find yourself extremely disappointed in the end. 100% this will end with Nathan and has always been meant to. The signs are all there and whether you want to believe them or ignore them is up to you.
Wow, suddenly I feel attacked and I don't feel I did anything to deserve it. It is just a show. A show I enjoy. Should I choose to believe that this time they might not pick the obvious choice that is my decision.
DeleteOne team is going to be sorely disappointed. That is just the truth of the matter. Personally, I'll be glad when its all over, either way it goes.
God bless.
Anonymous - I really don't want to get into a back and forth with you but felt this response was necessary.
DeleteFirstly, you were a little too snippy with Sue, who has done nothing but remain respectful and polite in her responses and did not deserve it. Secondly, this is a TEAM LUCAS fan's blog. I know that Team Nathan fans are more than welcome to post their thoughts, but the need to mention our fanbase as making "nasty comments" when no one has said anything in their responses to this blog is an unnecessary attack on Team Lucas fans. I have read some really heinous things about Lucas as well that I find hurtful and baseless. It's not like Team Nathan is innocent. However, I would never go on a Team Nathan fan's blog and complain about what Nathan fans are saying about Lucas. It's not fair when they haven't said anything/should be afforded the freedom to say what they feel on a Team Nathan blog. Most of all, I'd never go on there and be rude to one of their fans.
Anonymous,
DeleteIt's perfectly alright if you believe Nathan is endgame. I myself can see signs that could mean a Nathan ending. But at this point everyone is left to speculate, as the writers have done such a good job keeping us guessing. However please remember that everyone is entitled to their own thoughts and opinions.
God Bless.
I am also more partial to Nathan, but I appreciate that you have put your thoughts forward in a respectful way. I've seen and dealt with some nastiness from other people on Team Lucas, so thank you for being so respectful. I think anyone on who prefers Nathan will willingly admit that he has flaws. There are plenty of times he made me cringe in season 7. But like another commenter said, I don't believe he is abusive towards Elizabeth. Nathan is stubborn and he is unwilling to change who he is just to make himself more desirable in Elizabeth's eyes. Does he have problems communicating? Absolutely! Was he jealous when elizabeth went out with Lucas? Without a doubt. But I don't think that's why he was so upset in the cabin. When elizabeth left with Lucas to UC, it was conviently when Nathan was out of town. No one planned it that way, but it doesn't look good to Nathan who probably feels like he's been a tagalong to elizabeth and lucas the whole time and she was just too nice to turn him down. So, I don't think he was as jealous as he was angry about "people walking on eggshells around" him.
ReplyDeleteSorry! That was a super long comment! Anyway, thank you so much for putting your thoughts out there. Despite being team Nathan, I really appreciate your thoughts and your blog. Keep up the good work and God bless!
ReplyDeleteNo worries, The Heartie Observer! Feel free to comment as long as you want! :)
DeleteAnd thank you! I'm glad you enjoyed the post! I think Nathan has so much emotion and backstory just waiting to be explored! He has his flaws just as Lucas does, but I know he's a good, kind, shy, and sweet man. (Very nice traits to possess!)
You do make a good point about how it really wouldn't look good to Nathan to come back from a trip (Which he told Elizabeth he was going on) to find that she went out with Lucas. Ouch! That had to hurt!
I'm very curious about how all three characters involved in the triangle will react to each other in the coming Christmas Special. There are so many emotions that need to be dealt with!
Thank you so much for your support and the comment! God Bless!
Bem, sou totalmente apaixonada pelo Nathan. Gosto do Lucas, mas o Nathan já me conquistou. Falando sobre sua postagem achei bem interessante os pontos analisados. Realmente Nathan precisa ser entendido, é um homem doce e rude ao mesmo tempo, mas não sabemos das suas histórias de fundo. Em relação ao Lucas, sei que ele tem mais carisma e vamos dizer, chega chegando, bem diferente do Nathan, que possui uma timidez ao exagero. Em relação a cena da cabana, Nathan apenas teve medo de perder ELIZABETH, claro que não justifica o tom de voz, mas sabemos que quando alguém que nos importamos está em perigo, ficamos meio que sem noção. Bem, obrigada por suas palavras e análises. E um forte abraço aos queridos hearties, que só querem o melhor para nossa Elizabeth.
ReplyDeleteYes, it's very true. We really don't have a whole lot of information on either Lucas or Nathan's backstories, and I'd love to really dive deeper into their pasts.
DeleteBoth guys are good and sweet men who I believe would really love Elizabeth. It's all just up to who she picks. I'm so excited to find out what happens in Season 8!
Thank you so much for the comment! God Bless!
Great blog post! As you know, I'm passionate about my Team Lucas love and not quite keen on Nathan...but I don't fully dislike the guy either.
ReplyDeleteNathan does have some good qualities. Like you, I like that he's dedicated to raising his niece. I have enjoyed a lot of Nathan and Allie's scenes because of how loving he is with her. We see Nathan's playful side when he interacts with his niece which we don't with anyone else. I've seen a few of his scenes on When Hope Calls and he's quite entertaining to watch. I agree that his witty side tends to shine through when he's on WHC and I think it has everything to do with being away from Elizabeth. Kevin even alluded to this in an interview where he said Nathan does better in Brookfield because he's not tongue-tied like he is in Hope Valley because of Elizabeth. Speaking of Kevin, I also really like him as a person, but separate from that, his character just does not appeal to me. I'm glad you highlighted more of his good qualities, because I just ran out lol.
Now, to do the flipside...where do I begin? lol. What I've found is that it's not Nathan that I dislike, it's WHO NATHAN IS around Elizabeth (and by extension, Lucas) that I dislike. His attitude just changes so much around Elizabeth and he turns into an unlikable person. So many of his conversations with her end poorly with one or both of them walking away frustrated or confused. It amplifies right after things get "real" and he declares his pursuit of her a "competition." Already, he's not approaching his desire to win her heart honorably. He makes it more about wanting to beat out Lucas than wanting to be with Elizabeth. This is contrasted by how Lucas approaches the post-flowers situation...he doesn't say anything even though he knows Nathan also gave Elizabeth flowers. He just quietly works to win her heart...he doesn't need to bring Nathan into the equation.
While Lucas focuses on doing nice things for Elizabeth to show her how he feels, we have Nathan angry and pouting on the sidelines. Being angry and pouting internally is one thing, but taking it out on Elizabeth is where I can't stand him -- and we're not even talking about one or two isolated incidents. In 7x06, he sees Lucas/Elizabeth/Little Jack interacting while he's walking with Robert. His reaction? He clenches his jaw, gives Elizabeth a curt acknowledgement and presses on. In 7x07, we get the bitter "Welcome Back" before he walks off leaving her feeling bad. In 7x08, at the beginning of the episode he does the same thing as 7x06 (I like how the writers contrast that with when she sees Lucas further down the street and smiles.) Also in 7x08, she tries to make conversation outside the schoolhouse and he ignores her and walks away. Then later he yells at her in the cabin and we know it's about more than what happened in the woods. In 7x09 (granted I also blame Elizabeth here for confronting him), he makes no effort to smooth things over. It's just a CONSTANT issue with him where after he declares his interest in Elizabeth, he seems to see her as his girl and wants her to behave a certain way and that's NOT okay. If anything, this is when he should step it up if he truly wants her, but he doesn't.
(..continued...)
DeleteI find Nathan and Elizabeth scenes especially difficult to watch because of the awkwardness...I don't find it endearing. Maybe in Season 6 I could say that, but heading into Season 7, it shouldn't still be there. That just shows me that these two people still haven't learned how to communicate with each other. However, when you look at Lucas and Elizabeth's interactions, they are able to talk and laugh and hold a conversation with ease. I think the difference in the dynamics with both men is that Lucas has gotten to know Elizabeth, Nathan hasn't. Lucas has made an effort to get to know this woman he has feelings for and based on that, he has learned to connect with her -- the library, her writing, the book reading. Nathan, on the other hand, hasn't made that effort.
I also find Nathan's attitude towards Lucas deplorable. I adore Lucas, and I know he's not entirely blameless, but at least he shows Nathan a respect that Nathan doesn't always show him. Walking into Lucas's saloon and bitingly telling him he's "not a good" in Hope Valley was so wrong...especially after Lucas apologized for what happened with Allie (which I do not even blame him for.) Then Nathan accuses Lucas of not being a "book lover"...what does he even know about Lucas at this point? It's been that way heading into Season 7. Insulting him for being courteous towards his father, lying to him in his saloon to get closer to Elizabeth, assuming he'd back out of wanting to spread the news about the chicken pox outbreak. Again, he doesn't know Lucas, but he makes disparaging remarks about him. Like I said earlier, Lucas isn't completely innocent given he's set Nathan up to look bad in front of Elizabeth on two separate occasions, but he doesn't insult him or call out his character.
For me, personally, Nathan and Elizabeth just don't work and that's why I find Nathan taxing. I think he needs to be paired with another woman to make his character enjoyable. Maybe an "opposites attract" story where she's outgoing and bubbly and he's the stick in the mud who goes from being annoyed with her to falling in love with her. It sounds cliche, but if done right, I think it would bring out shades in Nathan that are buried somewhere deep inside him. I'm sure I have more to say but I'll end here for now. Again, great blog!
You definitely are passionate. I mean that in a good way. :-) (I'm probably just as passionate, but still denying it.) While it's kind of a bummer to read this when you are more a fan of Nathan, it helps me form better thoughts and opinions all around and look at things from many different angles. I do believe that an argument can be made that the writing for both Nathan and Lucas has caused some consternation, inconsistencies and holes. But, it's only 10 episodes a season, so I have to kind of expect some issues and just run with it. Having said that, I would consider it rather unbearable if either Nathan or Lucas had to spend much more time wondering who Elizabeth is going to pick (though an argument could be made that Lucas felt pretty confident that she had chosen him already). I would love to see her make a decision at the beginning of Season 8 and go from there, even if it doesn't end up being the right decision and she later realizes that. It might be the best way for her to truly figure it out. No matter what, I think for the sake of the show and the fans, something drastic has to happen pretty quickly.
DeleteDivya, you have broken this down so well, I can't really add anything to what you said. Marianne- bite your tongue on her picking the wrong guy and then changing her mind! LOL
DeleteI certainly hope she decides fairly early in the season, and picks the right guy. I can't stand the thought of this dragging out into a season 9 and would actually probably stop watching if the PTB do that to us.
Kelley's girl: I know I should be careful what I wish for , huh? The reason that thought came to me was because it was done in a book that I read and I actually preferred it over the back and forth of stringing two guys along without making a decision. Yes, the character in the book chose one guy, but ended up with the other guy in the end (which, yes, was the guy I was leaning a bit more towards, but the outcome actually surprised me). I would have been fine if she hadn't though (and I would be okay with either for Elizabeth as well because I think they are both really good guys--I think either is a win for her). I actually really liked the book and I thought the author did a good job with it. I'm certainly not suggesting she pick Lucas so she can find out that it's Nathan she really wants (it would actually make more sense if she did the opposite, so maybe you should champion this--ha!) Mostly I'm just saying that I'd like her to pick somebody soon (and for good) because this whole thing is exhausting watching and it's disconcerting to have such negativity and extremes, so I really pity the guys. :-) They've really been (as Elizabeth would say) put through the paces.
DeleteYou make some great points Divya, and have broken things down very nicely!
DeleteI too do not hate Nathan. I just don't want him for Elizabeth, and haven't agreed with everything that he's done. There is such a contrast in the way Lucas and Nathan have approached their feelings for Elizabeth. Neither one have been perfect, and both certainly have their flaws. Yet there is such a difference in the way they treat her.
Lucas is so gentle and sweet in his manner. (I love how nervous he gets around her! It's so cute!)
Nathan also is shy and sweet, but he can get very moody when things don't go his way, or something happens that he doesn't like. His personality was much more fun in WHC and I wish he'd have more of that confidence and wittiness in WCTH.
I agree I would love to see him with someone who just shakes his world up. Someone fun and outgoing who just sweeps in when he wasn't expecting it!
Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts! God Bless!
I think Lucas benches 300Lbs every day!!!!
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